Choose an institution to see its records and dossier, or choose a topic.
Through year 2027 · all records, including scheduled dates 2026 2025 2024 2023 2022 2021 2020 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 2014 2013 2012 2011 2010 2008 2005 1965 Show Organisations and infrastructure All types Organisation Person Document Concept Infrastructure Public body Reset filters
94 people, organisations and other records · 122 relationships · 34 claims about a valueEverything recorded up to the chosen year, whether or not still in effect · Undated records included
Claim and evidence Close ×
The post “Ngo and Yudkowsky on alignment difficulty” (2021-11-15) contests Y15. Answers Richard Ngo's question why a planning system could not be non-consequentialist about which plans it outputs. Argues that outputting plans that achieve outcomes is itself consequentialist work, whatever system performs it. Copy claim link
Copy claim reference
Machine-checked, not reviewed by an editor Stated in source Supported
Supporting evidence: primary · 1 source
Date 2021-11-15 · publication Role Contesting Register (kind of text) Nonfiction Engagement Engages a premise. Under the message-level rule, the passage, read with the paragraph, message or dialogue turn it belongs to, gives a reason against the premise that a system can be highly capable without having goals or optimising for outcomes. Scope and limits Premise addressed: A system can be highly capable without having goals or optimising for outcomes. The quotation is a turn attributed to Yudkowsky in a dialogue. Edited transcript of a 2021 Discord dialogue posted 15 November 2021 (co-authored post). In the turn the sentence is framed as 'My answer is, "…"'. Lightly edited transcript of a conversation held before the posting date; the date shown is the publication date. Answers Ngo's proposal of a planner that only outputs plans for humans to follow: producing plans that score high when followed is consequentialist work.
The evidence 01 primary source Supports the claim
Ngo and Yudkowsky on alignment difficulty ↗ LessWrong · 2021-11-15
Copy source reference
Cite the original source Cite the original document, not Selekoa. Check these details against it.
Copy APA
Download BibTeX Download RIS Download CSL-JSON
Source excerpt “What the heck would it mean for a planning system to be non-consequentialist? You're asking for nonwet water! What's consequentialist isn't the system that does the work, it's the work you're trying to do!” Location in source 'Ngo and Yudkowsky on alignment difficulty', section 3.3 'Hypothetical-planning systems, nanosystems, and evolving generality', turn [Yudkowsky][13:03][13:11]
Machine-checked · 2026-10-06
Source details and check notes Authors Eliezer Yudkowsky; Richard Ngo Version Post body retrieved through the LessWrong GraphQL API on 2026-10-06 (SHA-256 e9897f317f4628db3254b0a109a0646bfa797f79757b76dbb1fba80ad80b06f5), content version 1.0.0. Canonical address Open the canonical source ↗ Accessed 2026-10-06 Language English (en) Attribution Eliezer Yudkowsky and Richard Ngo, “Ngo and Yudkowsky on alignment difficulty”, LessWrong, 2021-11-15. Reuse No open redistribution licence asserted. Bibliographic metadata, editorial paraphrases and short attributed quotations (at most 50 words each). Recheck terms before wider redistribution. Check notes Candidate pack passage T15-d. The quotation (34 words) matched the retrieved expression (SHA-256 e9897f317f4628db3254b0a109a0646bfa797f79757b76dbb1fba80ad80b06f5) when checked on 2026-10-06. Status and meaning Editorial status. Not reviewed by an editor . An exploratory record that no editor has accepted. This status does not say whether a person has read any linked passage. Each evidence record above shows how it was checked.
Relation. A passage of the document disputes the proposition or a premise it depends on. The record documents the text’s position, not who is right.
Date. LessWrong postedAt.
Record ID yk-y15-lw-2021-ngo-and-yudkowsky-on-alignment-difficulty-c