Choose an institution to see its records and dossier, or choose a topic.
Through year 2027 · all records, including scheduled dates 2026 2025 2024 2023 2022 2021 2020 2019 2018 2017 2016 2015 2014 2013 2012 2011 2010 2008 2005 1965 Show Organisations and infrastructure All types Organisation Person Document Concept Infrastructure Public body Reset filters
94 people, organisations and other records · 122 relationships · 34 claims about a valueEverything recorded up to the chosen year, whether or not still in effect · Undated records included
Claim and evidence Close ×
The SL4 message “Re: Evolving minds” (2000-11-18) contests Y16. Rephrasing a list of Ben Goertzel's points, he adds programmer-independent morality as a design goal for a Sysop superintelligence. Copy claim link
Copy claim reference
Machine-checked, not reviewed by an editor Stated in source Supported
Supporting evidence: primary · 1 source
Date 2000-11-18 · publication Role Contesting Register (kind of text) Nonfiction Engagement States the contrary. Under the message-level rule, the passage states the contrary conclusion without giving a reason against the premise that present-day or programmers' values are settled enough to fix permanently in an AI, even when read with its message or dialogue turn. Scope and limits Premise addressed: Present-day or programmers' values are settled enough to fix permanently in an AI. A design desideratum, not an argument against fixing present values; in late 2000 'programmer independence' was tied to his earlier objective-morality model (see his SL4 message of 2001-03-24). "Sysop" was his term at the time for a superintelligence administering the world; terse, without argument.
The evidence 01 primary source Supports the claim
Re: Evolving minds (SL4 mailing list) ↗ SL4 mailing list · 2000-11-18
Copy source reference
Cite the original source Cite the original document, not Selekoa. Check these details against it.
Copy APA
Download BibTeX Download RIS Download CSL-JSON
Source excerpt “3) Programmer-independent morality (morality which does not contain quirks or errors which were unique to the particular human programmers) is a desirable property of a Sysop.” Location in source message body, paragraph beginning '3) Programmer-independent morality'
Machine-checked · 2026-10-07
Source details and check notes Authors Eliezer Yudkowsky Version Archive HTML as served, retrieved 2026-10-07 (SHA-256 6b172d23654e038dba9ea5c2d6d679c8f4a51bb70c6d6b15d0d56b0fb80c7a2d); quoted lines excluded when reading the author’s text. The served archive shows later URL rewriting and does not authenticate historical bytes. Archive at sl4.org. Canonical address Open the canonical source ↗ Accessed 2026-10-07 Language English (en) Attribution Eliezer Yudkowsky, “Re: Evolving minds”, SL4 mailing list, 2000-11-18. Reuse No open redistribution licence asserted. Bibliographic metadata, editorial paraphrases and short attributed quotations (at most 50 words each). Recheck terms before wider redistribution. Check notes Candidate pack passage T16-s3. The quotation (26 words) matched the retrieved expression (SHA-256 6b172d23654e038dba9ea5c2d6d679c8f4a51bb70c6d6b15d0d56b0fb80c7a2d) when checked on 2026-10-07. Status and meaning Editorial status. Not reviewed by an editor . An exploratory record that no editor has accepted. This status does not say whether a person has read any linked passage. Each evidence record above shows how it was checked.
Relation. A passage of the document disputes the proposition or a premise it depends on. The record documents the text’s position, not who is right.
Date. Archive author index lists the message as "Sat Nov 18 2000 - 12:34:51 MST" under "Eliezer S. Yudkowsky".
Record ID yk-y16-sl4-2000-11-18-yudkowsky-0011-0240-c